| [Forum] Legal threats from Harald Frank | Link |
| Posted on 21-Feb-2003 03:23 GMT by PGTips | 58 comments (24k)
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Add comment | | Harald Frank is threatening to sue Amiga.org
Normally I would never condone such actions as posting an e-mail into a public arena, but I feel that you, as the Amiga community should be aware of the level of stupidity and arrogance now involved in the Harald Frank versus Bernie Meyer war.
Now, while any development for the Amiga is a good thing, Harald Frank is threatening to sue Amiga.org (a free, non-profit service) if we even use the name of his product.
Posted in the Read More is the entire text from Harald Frank concerning the last news story in which Bernie Meyer is considering restarting development on the Umithlon project.
It's actions such as these which will keep the Amiga from EVER surfacing as a viable platform again, and I sincerely hope that Amiga Inc will distance themselves from all parties involved for their own good.
------------ Text in it's unedited form ------------
Hello,
please remove imediately any use of our product trademark on your website! If Mr. Meyer do such on his own sites and so put one of his feet into jail because of missuisung business trademarks, than its his decission and he has to stand in court for that.
But if you do such, or help in such illegal missuse, it is you who will get really fast some nice paper from my companys lawyer!
we will not tolerate any missuse of our business trademarks trough any kind of faked anoucements like now on your site!
If you are not able to keep your site clean from such abuse and illegal missuse, than as you suggested last time in your answer close down this service.
There will no more warning to you now, two times is enough!
Best regards,
VMC Harald Frank, Developer and Founder of Amithlon |
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 1 of 58 | Posted by Bernd Meyer (203.217.26.132) on 21-Feb-2003 03:53:27 | And isn't it funny --- never once does dear Harald even mention what "trademark" of his is supposedly being misused on Wayne's excellent site.
Harald claims to hold the trademark for "Amithlon". This is quite an impressive claim, seeing that
he certainly had *not* registered that trademark last time I ran a trademark search (which was a considerable time *after* he made the claim.
Trademarks can be created by registering them, or by using them in relation to a product. So we would be looking at the second option here. But of course, that would give me at least as much "right" to the trademark as Harald, and as apparently I "misuse" the same trademark, as a consequence have "put one of [my] feet into jail", that can't be it.
Of course, the word "Amithlon" is not even mentioned in the news item Harald objects to, nor, at the time of this writing, in any of the comments of that item. So what the #### is he on about?
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 2 of 58 | Posted by Mike Veroukis (24.85.17.221) on 21-Feb-2003 04:03:51 | In Reply to Comment 1 (Bernd Meyer):
Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon Amithlon
So sue me!
- Mike
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 4 of 58 | Posted by A.Scott Pringle (203.10.110.132) on 21-Feb-2003 04:05:07 | In Reply to Comment 1 (Bernd Meyer):
Beats me what he is on about. Seems to be flapping his gums quite often over things which don't have anything to do with him. I see no mention of a product he has any involvement in anywhere on the page the news posting was referring to. In fact I believe the author took pains to make sure there was nothing of the sort there.
my 2 cents.
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 5 of 58 | Posted by Kelly Samel (66.222.128.77) on 21-Feb-2003 05:44:08 | This is getting ridiculous. Amithlon is going to
be discussed and used on Amiga sites for years to
come and Harald will just have to get used to it.
You can not sue the entire Amiga community for
mentioning a name of product in a news post. This
is unacceptable and I can't imagine the
motivation behind this...
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 6 of 58 | Posted by Anonymous (217.35.14.233) on 21-Feb-2003 05:44:29 | In Reply to Comment 1 (Bernd Meyer):
As much as I like you Bernd, you probably wouldn't have any claim to the name "Amithlon" under trademark law because you weren't selling it to people.
You must use the MARK in your TRADE to get TRADEMARK protection.
On the other hand this threat is fairly ridiculous too, to get any protection the trademark holder must show how someone is abusing his mark to confuse customers or benefit commercially. It must be shown how the mark Amithlon is being used to refer to something which is NOT Amithlon, or to sell advertising or whatever on Amiga.org, which seems like a stretch to me (but IANAL).
Unfortunately the "moderation" employed by A.org and ANN makes them very vulnerable to claims of editorial responsibility. If you can remove swearing and pointless flamewars, the argument goes, then you can also censor trademarks, and enforce any other legal requirements.
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 9 of 58 | Posted by Bernd Meyer (203.217.26.132) on 21-Feb-2003 06:00:38 | In Reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
My "trade" is that of a freelance software developer. What I deal in is my time, and licenses to the results of my work.
I have plenty of documentary evidence here of my use of the term "Amithlon" when dealing, as a freelance software developer, with betatesters as well as potential and actual licensees.
And mind you --- I do not claim to own the trademark. What I say is that I own it *as much as* Harald does. And that, somehow, complaining to Wayne about his (nonexistent) use of the term, in a mail signed "Developer and Founder of Amithlon", without having my permission for the use of such a signature, seems a tad contradictory.....
It's like spraying "I HATE MESSAGES SPRAYED ON WALLS" on a wall in huge neon-coloured letters. Except that, in this case, the analogy would have to be doing so in a city where each and every single wall is completely clean prior to doing so.
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 10 of 58 | Posted by takemehomegrandma (213.226.83.93) on 21-Feb-2003 08:58:37 | Don't worry, he would never succeed in doing that. This is just to scare. There is a big difference of someone trying to make money on your registered trademark (for example selling your own home brewed cola as "coca cola") and speaking about a product in a discussion (for example talking about "coca cola").
The free press (amiga.org) is also allowed speak about companies and their trademarks. I don't know if one *have* to mention who owns the trademark, but doing so in a footnote seems to be a custom. For example:
http://www.amiga.org/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=5
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 11 of 58 | Posted by takemehomegrandma (213.226.83.93) on 21-Feb-2003 09:13:35 | In Reply to Comment 9 (Bernd Meyer):
The "Amithlon" name has quite mixed values attached to it now IMO, both positive and negative. IF you now are about to continue development you should perhaps consider dropping and forgetting that name? New product, new features, new name?
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 15 of 58 | Posted by Elwood (212.67.34.152) on 21-Feb-2003 10:38:57 | If the name Amithlon is still used, maybe it's because it is easier for Amigans to remember it, instead of Umilator. I understand this.
So what do you think about another name, still starting with "Ami" to give the Amiga idea ? I love "Amirage". It hasn't been used, right ? It's perfect for an emulator: it's a mirage to see a hosted OS running on your machine and "rage" suits well to both the Amiga spirit and the good program this emulator is...
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 17 of 58 | Posted by Raffaele (212.216.195.163) on 21-Feb-2003 11:14:35 | In Reply to Comment 15 (Elwood):
About the name:
Elwood is right.
And by the way, UMILATOR in italian speech is bad...
It seems almost a word UMILIATORE
(which doesn't exists as I remember, INMHO,
but is grammatically correct)
AND sounds like "He who humiliates others"
Except if this could be the author idea...
;-)))))))))))))))))))
And Elwood said:
>Amiga idea ? I love "Amirage". It hasn't been used, right?
>It's perfect for an emulator:
>it's a mirage to see a hosted OS running on your machine
>and "rage" suits well to both the Amiga spirit
>and the good program this emulator is...
And I suggest also ARAMIS or ATHOS, like the mosquetters...
ARAMIS as AMIGA ON RAM INTEL SERVICE (or something like it)
ATHOS as AMIGA HOSTED OS (or something like it)
And they have also suond of stamina in them...
Bye,
Raffaele
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 18 of 58 | Posted by Raffaele (212.216.195.163) on 21-Feb-2003 11:20:08 | In Reply to Comment 14 (Adam Waldenberg):
Adam Waldemberg wrote:
>If Mr. Frank truly believes that this is a viable cause
>for suing Amiga.org and he actually thinks he can win,
>he is truly an idiot.
And he offers also his flank to be sued in reply, if he will lose.
Bye,
Raffaele
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 22 of 58 | Posted by Bernd Meyer (203.217.26.132) on 21-Feb-2003 13:36:44 | In Reply to Comment 20 (Anonymous):
My personal favourite for a new name was "Amigator". Would have made for a great logo, rolls of the tongue, and has the string "Amiga" in it (which Amiga Inc was cool with). Unfortunately, a quick google search showed that Scott and I (during a brainstorming session at MAUG) weren't the first ones to come up with that idea.
That's the real attraction of "Umilator" as a name.... There is absolutely no chance whatsoever that anyone can claim prior rights. I mean, even "umisef" (the Nickname/handle I use all over the place) has been mentioned in Bob Nelson's Football Routine....
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 25 of 58 | Posted by Anonymous (204.152.29.253) on 21-Feb-2003 14:13:36 | In Reply to Comment 14 (Adam Waldenberg):
Flame the bas***d!
Why does this guy act so childish ?! If anyone is worried about getting sue'd a simple call to a solicitor/lawyer to discuss the situation will put minds at rest. I went through a similar situation (although I feel there was far more evidence in my case), and my solicitor gave free advice, because the issue never went any further once I advised the person of my discussion with a solicitor.
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 27 of 58 | Posted by Bill Hoggett (80.40.24.193) on 21-Feb-2003 14:26:02 | In Reply to Comment 22 (Bernd Meyer):
Amigator was my favourite too. I had this vision of the new mascot: cute little aussie croc figure (green of course, matching the logo background), in the style of Tux or Amy the Squirrel or the little devil figure FreeBSD uses (can't remember the darn name right now), and wearing a checkered red and white t-shirt in the Amiga colours. Call him "Gatsby" or something and you have a marketing dream!
Then I did a google search on the name. Awww, sh... ucks! :(
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 29 of 58 | Posted by Don Cox (62.254.64.5) on 21-Feb-2003 14:52:10 | In Reply to Comment 27umber=27 (Bill Hoggett):
"Amigator was my favourite too. I had this vision of the new mascot: cute little aussie croc figure (green of
course, matching the logo background), in the style of Tux or Amy the Squirrel or the little devil figure
FreeBSD uses (can't remember the darn name right now), and wearing a checkered red and white t-shirt
in the Amiga colours. Call him "Gatsby" or something and you have a
marketing dream! "
The character could still be used, but with a different name. How
about "Bernie the Man-Eating Croc" ? ;-)
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 39 of 58 | Posted by miksuh (193.167.7.205) on 21-Feb-2003 17:38:29 | In Reply to Comment 32 (Anonymous):
I think that many of those anonymous people who are always ready to blame others whitout telling who the hell they are infact those who usually start the flamewars and insult campaigns.
We have seen it so many times, that some anonymous guys just pop in, start flame war, and they they just go away.
Sad truth is that there is some morons in this community, as in any community. But thats just small loud minority I think. Don't blame thw whole community. I am not even so sure that all those anonymous trouble makers are from this community.
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 40 of 58 | Posted by miksuh (193.167.7.205) on 21-Feb-2003 17:43:49 | In Reply to Comment 32 (Anonymous):
I think that many of those anonymous people who are always ready to blame others whitout telling who the hell they are, are infact those who usually start the flamewars and insult campaigns. Not always ofcourse, but often they are.
We have seen it so many times, that some anonymous guys just pop in, start flame war, and then they just go away.
Sad truth is that there is some morons in this community, as in any community. But thats just small loud minority I think. Don't blame the whole community. I am not even so sure that all those anonymous trouble makers are from this community.
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 42 of 58 | Posted by KenH (194.125.207.224) on 21-Feb-2003 20:01:19 | Hopefully AMITHLONs sales are flagging and this is a tactic to improve it's name in someway. Sad....but futile on a public forum. Um freedom of speech anyone?
By the way Bernd if the name isn't registered wouldn't it be fun if some of us registered it and sued the ass off Frank. ;)
A possible name....AMIssion. :)
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 43 of 58 | Posted by Anonymous (217.229.111.66) on 21-Feb-2003 20:34:43 | In Reply to Comment 40 (miksuh):
If you have asked nicely I would have told you. And why do you think it's wrong saying that this community is full of retarded faggots ? It's the totally truth. People slam their head each other. Instead helpin in this shrinking community people split up into various own little worlds and communities and fight each other. Like you I don't need to reply to the same message 32 all the time. I mean people in this freaking shrinking and stinking community have nothing better to do than throwing bad words to others, insulting, libel and slander organisations and attack people verbally by using their right names etc. On the other hand I must be thankfull that all these insulting queers and retards are staying on this little community so I should support this community to have all these retards stay there otherwise they start to pollute other communities with their presence. Most of you unthankful retarded morons are responsible for all this disease, problems, insults, pissed people and no software. Not the hardware vendors. Now this uber moron who wants to put amiga.org to the court is far from reality and should slam his freaking head against a wall as much and as hard till blood comes out of the head. he is quite stupid. people that feed this moron with shit are stupid too.
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 44 of 58 | Posted by The Gay Avenger (195.92.67.67) on 21-Feb-2003 22:52:06 | In Reply to Comment 43 (Anonymous):
"... And why do you think it's wrong saying that this community is full of retarded faggots ?..."
"...I mean people in this freaking shrinking and stinking community have nothing better to do than throwing bad words to others, insulting, libel and slander organisations and attack people verbally "
"... On the other hand I must be thankfull that all these insulting queers and retards are staying on this little community so I should support this community to have all these retards stay there otherwise they start to pollute other communities with their presence. ..."
etc etc
FFS SHUT UP and take your incredibly offensive ranting elsewhere. Can someone moderate this tirade of homophobic neonazi crap out of existence please?
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 47 of 58 | Posted by darklite (213.177.154.92) on 21-Feb-2003 23:45:21 | In Reply to Comment 27 (Bill Hoggett):
>Amigator was my favourite too. I had this vision of the new mascot: cute little
>aussie croc figure (green of course, matching the logo background), in the style
>of Tux or Amy the Squirrel or the little devil figure FreeBSD uses (can't
>remember the darn name right now), and wearing a checkered red and white t-shirt
>in the Amiga colours. Call him "Gatsby" or something and you have a marketing
>dream!
STOP IT! Enough of the "cute" OS mascots :p It would be far from original too.
How about a *cool* mascot for a change?
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Legal threats from Harald Frank : Comment 49 of 58 | Posted by Bernd Meyer (203.217.26.132) on 22-Feb-2003 02:12:51 | In Reply to Comment 42 (KenH):
Trust me, when Harald started this particular lunacy (and when I searched for the trademark in German, European and worldwide registries for the first time), I seriously considered registering the trademark --- partly out of self defence, and partly, I confess, to have some fun.
What stopped me in the end was (a) the cost (registering trademarks is not cheap, more's the pity), and (b) the fact that *me* registering it would be just a frivolous as Harald registering it, and thus just as wrong.
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