| Posted on 27-Jul-2003 15:28 GMT by takemehomegrandma | 381 comments (302k)
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Add comment | | BBRV talked very briefly about MorphOS 1.4 on #MorphOS today ...
""yesterday we played a movie, then we open FIVE "Zoom" windows (new 1.4 feature) at differnt zoom levels and then we moved the curser around...alll this while the second desktop was running ImageFX...then we launched the CPU meter [also a new 1.4 feature] and it read between 70 and 95% -- flashing for a second sometimes at 100%...that was all done on a G3""
I asked: "Did TCP and JIT make it into the 1.4 release?"
""JIT yes, TCP/IP no, but license is signed and integration is being done" ... "we might release it without the GUI...we will think about it""
Apparently, there will be a demonstration of MorphOS 1.4 around 11:30 local time. Now, where were those streaming servers again ...
;-)
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 101 of 381 | Posted by Janne (80.186.73.90) on 28-Jul-2003 13:40:12 | In Reply to Comment 99 (Anonymous):
>>What he sees now is competition (and of course he is right, there is
>competition)
>BBRV say there is no competition and they wish AInc luck in the things they
>want to accomplish.
Well, BBRV is BBRV when they say that. :-) Of course there is some competition, if for nothing else than for the hearts and minds, and the developments, of the various developers in the Amiga community. As for products, well, there are no directly competing products for MorphOS in the "Amiga" market today, but there will be.
As for wishing AInc luck, I'm sure they do mean that personally. Business-wise, well, I'm sure they have their reasons to be more flexible in that regard. Having said that, though, I do believe Genesi is open to getting OS4 on the Pegasos, they just don't seem interested in the Amiga Inc. licensing scheme so for the moment that isn't moving forwards. And besides, OS4 isn't ready either.
It is true that the Pegasos platform is open to many operating systems and I think that is great. Another step in diversifying computing and putting more individualism and fun back to it. Great work!
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 103 of 381 | Posted by samface (131.116.254.197) on 28-Jul-2003 13:49:17 | In Reply to Comment 97 (DaveP):
"If we alienate MorphOS users needlessly then yes it may be that by doing so our actions will cause them to always work against us and never buy Amiga based kit in future"
Why would they? Future AmigaOS applications will not work with MorphOS just like MorphOS applications will not work with AmigaOS. These are not compatible operating systems that will not run on the same hardware. Once you choose to go down either one of those two paths, you are no longer a classic Amiga user and therefore does not share the same interest with those that didn't choose the same path as you. In what way would an AmigaOS4 user be contributing to the Pegasos/MorphOS platform? In what way would a Pegasos/MorphOS user be contributing to the Amiga platform? Not at all.
Besides, I think it has been made perfectly clear that both Genesi and Amiga Inc. would do just about anything to put the other out of business, which is perfectly natural since they are competing for the same userbase. However, believeing that we could somehow ignore this and remain as a united user group is pretty naive. Ignoring these problems is dangerous and the more you guys keep abusing Amiga Inc.'s trademark like this, the more the community disintegrate rather than each alternative becoming an outgrowth on it's own. This should be in everybody's interest, you know.
Oh well, don't blame me when everything has gone down the drain. However, I will torture you by saying "told you so". :-P
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 105 of 381 | Posted by Janne (80.186.73.90) on 28-Jul-2003 14:04:28 | In Reply to Comment 103 (samface):
>In what way would an AmigaOS4 user be contributing to the Pegasos/MorphOS
>platform? In what way would a Pegasos/MorphOS user be contributing to the
>Amiga platform? Not at all.
That is where the major disagreement seems to be in. There are plenty of opportunities and possibilities. Whether or not those are realized, well, that is pretty much up to all of us. There are risks too, but I choose not to see things as bleakly as you do. You know, when it comes to community, not all is about the technology either...
For instance, if we were to split up the Amiga user group in Finland, there probably wouldn't be an Amiga user group here. I know the people volunteering most of their time and organizing things, editing our magazine etc., if forced a choice today, they'd probably all go MorphOS. And replacements are HARD to find! But they have no desire to do that - they, like I, see a larger community of users we can all serve and be a part of. Hey, some of us may buy OS4 in the future too. If nothing else, the Amiga and MorphOS users in Finland benefit from the fact that we do have a user group that gets things done without building artificial borders between different "camps". We welcome all, serve all and accept contributions from all, even if we have our personal opinions too.
This is one example of us all benefiting from staying together. Just recently Duke Nukem got ports for both MorphOS and AmigaOS - AFAIK based on the same port. We all benefited from staying together there too instead of completely separate efforts.
Look, I understand what you are saying. You think MorphOS is draining power from the Amiga trademark and the official plan. You know, it probably is. But on the other hand, it is bringing something important to the equation - at least for the moment. Many people tired of waiting for OS4 have found something to play with. Some of these might buy OS4 when it gets here too. Like I say, none of us can say about the future. The UNIX family is a somewhat encouraging example, but nobody can tell if we get something like POSIX to bind us together, or if we drift very much apart. But since it is there anyway, draining some power like all of the diversity tends to do, we might as well try to make the most of it - because diversity can also bring a lot to the equation. Use MorphOS as one of the tools to leverage our community out of darkness - one of the tools, not the only one.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 106 of 381 | Posted by Turrican (212.205.235.224) on 28-Jul-2003 14:05:53 | In Reply to Comment 95 (samface):
-----------------
Furthermore, why are you so surprised about the fact that some people doesn't want the Amiga brand to be associated with projects that are opposing the efforts behind the one and only real next generation Amiga? It's perfectly natural, if you ask me, why can't you just respect that? I mean, if you guys really don't care about the name, then why are you clinging on to it so hard?
-----------------
It is just that we don't see Amiga mostly as a brand but as a platform. Does PC means only IBM PC? Is this x86 machine that I am using right now a PC or not?
The word "Amiga" no longer symbolizes the products from a certain company (it did when there were only official Amigas) but the whole platform.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 107 of 381 | Posted by DaveP (32.106.75.100) on 28-Jul-2003 14:06:12 | In Reply to Comment 103 (samface):
>"If we alienate MorphOS users needlessly then yes it may be that by doing so our actions will cause them to always work against us and never buy Amiga based kit in future"
"Future AmigaOS applications will not work with MorphOS just like MorphOS applications will not work with AmigaOS."
This prevents them from buying an A1 how?
"These are not compatible operating systems that will not run on the same hardware."
This prevents them from buying an A1 how? OpenAmiga versions?
"Once you choose to go down either one of those two paths, you are no longer a classic Amiga user and therefore does not share the same interest with those that didn't choose the same path as you."
Sooooo if I buy AOS4 Im no longer a classic Amiga user ( even though I am running classic amiga applications and might or might not have my old Amiga hardware ) even if I use it on CSPPC or BPPC? If you are wholly running on MorphOS on Pegasos and run nothing else I agree you are not an Amiga user unless you fire up UAE HOWEVER that does not say that you do not share the same interest - running in an Amiga style environment.
"In what way would an AmigaOS4 user be contributing to the Pegasos/MorphOS platform?"
We have been through this:
1. By owning both solutions.
2. By buying products available for both solutions.
3. By conversing with and sharing development problems with MorphOS users who have the same API issues and learning needs.
4. By discussing PPC board problems, explaining how they work.
"In what way would a Pegasos/MorphOS user be contributing to the Amiga platform?"
Ive already given you examples.
"Not at all."
Answering your own questions lest someone come up with answer that disagrees with yours is not a good tactic in debate, it makes you look nervous :-)
"Besides, I think it has been made perfectly clear that both Genesi and Amiga Inc. would do just about anything to put the other out of business."
And are I would say. However we are talking about the userbase and not the companies, lets not diverge just yet. Save this up for later.
"believeing that we could somehow ignore this and remain as a united user group is pretty naive."
Who said anything about being a united user group? We are discussing whether or not we have common interests and whether or not we can operate as a community. Only in 1984 ( the book not the year ) were people forced to have a common robot like existence.
"Ignoring these problems is dangerous and the more you guys keep abusing Amiga Inc.'s trademark like this,"
Excuse me, you guys? Are you accusing me of abusing Amiga Incs trademark?
"the more the community disintegrate rather than each alternative becoming an outgrowth on it's own. This should be in everybody's interest, you know."
It is only disintegrating because people like you and Lando and Dammy keep looking for reasons to wind each other up, hate and otherwise classify each other in an offensive way. From "BAF" to "traitor" Ive heard it all and frankly Im sick of it.
"Oh well, don't blame me when everything has gone down the drain. However, I will torture you by saying "told you so". :-P"
The day you can tell me "told you so" is the day Hitler makes a comeback as the democratically elected prime minister of Isreal. Be real for once, please, don't you realise that by playing these classification and gang games you are bringing about that which you supposedly abhor?
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 108 of 381 | Posted by Jupp3 (193.167.144.30) on 28-Jul-2003 14:19:15 | In Reply to Comment 103 (samface):
Samface:
"MorphOS applications will not work with AmigaOS. These are not compatible operating systems that will not run on the same hardware."
Getting harder to think of new lies, so repeat old ones, eh?
I answered those lies already at comment 57, but you missed that...
and people reading your lies, when you re-type them now, they might actually believe them...
But remember, no matter how many times you tell a lie, it will NOT become true...
So, here's my comment, as it was originally written:
----------------------------------------------------
Since it seems you have absolutely NO idea, what you're writing about,
I just have to reply for you...
"MorphOS applications is not compatible with the Amiga"
On "source level" most MorphOS applications are VERY compatible...
And "source code" is what most deveopers develop in the first place...
It's Compilers' job to compile source to chosen target platform(s)
"MorphOS doesn't run on the same hardware as the AmigaOS"
Eh???
Guess, you would rather mean "AmigaOS 4 won't run on certain platform supporting MorphOS"
Few facts for you:
1. MorphOS runs on CSPPC machines, which are first target platform of AOS4.
2. MorphOS runs on BPPC machines, which are 3rd target platform for AOS4
3. MorphOS version for Teron/AmigaOne boards is being worked on
There... Read it this time.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 109 of 381 | Posted by samface (131.116.254.197) on 28-Jul-2003 14:29:10 | In Reply to Comment 100 (Janne):
Who said x != Amiga would mean that x would have to be something negative or evil? It's simply concluding that it's not Amiga, nothing more nothing less. You guys are reading too much into the concept of accepting that not everything can be refered to as Amiga products.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 110 of 381 | Posted by Janne (80.186.73.90) on 28-Jul-2003 14:36:40 | In Reply to Comment 109 (samface):
At least I CONCEDE Pegasos is not an Amiga. Okay?
Now that that's out of the way, it is an Amiga compatible computer and thus of relevance to the Amiga community - relevance proven by hundreds of Amiga people embracing the solution and testifying to its compatibility and similarity.
On the other the word Amiga isn't what it used to be either. It now refers to AmigaOS, AmigaDE etc., all of which are NOT compatible with heach other and haven't got much more to do with one another than a name.
So, the Amiga platform and the Amiga community are not what they used to be. There is new-found diversity here, both official and unofficial. In the beginning there was only IBM PC too. And UNIX.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 111 of 381 | Posted by samface (131.116.254.197) on 28-Jul-2003 14:39:13 | In Reply to Comment 106 (Turrican):
"The word "Amiga" no longer symbolizes the products from a certain company (it did when there were only official Amigas) but the whole platform."
Beeeeeeep! Wrong! Thank you for playing.
PC is not a registered trademark but a term for a common hardware standard, while the term Amiga is a registered trademark of Amiga Inc. This is a fact and neither you or I are in a position to redefine their trademark and associate it with other products than those labeled as Amiga products by Amiga Inc.
You can have opinions about facts, but you can't turn an opinion into a fact.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 112 of 381 | Posted by samface (131.116.254.197) on 28-Jul-2003 14:50:28 | In Reply to Comment 110 (Janne):
But you're forgetting one important detail; Amiga and the Pegasos/MorphOS share nothing but backwards compatibility. This "compatibility" is not comparable to the UNIX or IBM PC standards since were talking about a mere feature for making the convertion from the classic Amiga systems to a new alternative platform with both different hardware and operating system easier. If we as users want these systems to comply with any form of unified "Amiga" standard, we would have to invent our own. However, I simply don't see that ever happening.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 113 of 381 | Posted by Janne (80.186.73.90) on 28-Jul-2003 14:51:07 | In Reply to Comment 111 (samface):
>You can have opinions about facts, but you can't turn an opinion into a fact.
Just a slight detour here... in fact, when it comes to trademarks, you can. At least with enough people participating. I'm not disputing Amiga Inc.'s claim to the name Amiga here, but I am noting a particularily troublesome feature of trademarks. If enough people and business use a word in some other meaning than the official holder of that trademark, without legal action from the owner, they will loose the trademark. The word becomes generic, thus "opinion" turns into "fact". (This is indeed troublesome for companies since they face negative public opinion for defending a trademark, sometimes being seemingly petty, but may loose it if they don't.)
There are plenty of examples of this in the world. The Finnish nick name for cell-phone, kännykkä, for instance is a registered trademark of Nokia, but they have no case defending it now. It is used by people to refer to all brands. Coca Cola is according to urban legends so worried about this that they have people roaming the countryside, ordering Coca Cola from cafeterias and sending out written complaints if they get Pepsi when ordering Coke - all just to make sure the word doesn't turn too generic. And I'm sure people "xerox" stuff on other machines than just Xeroxes... Other examples escape me at the moment, but I know I've heard plenty. Many everyday words started out as trademarks.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 115 of 381 | Posted by Janne (80.186.73.90) on 28-Jul-2003 14:53:56 | In Reply to Comment 112 (samface):
>But you're forgetting one important detail; Amiga and the Pegasos/MorphOS
>share nothing but backwards compatibility.
Neither did UNIX clones and IBM PC compatibles when they first arrived. What more can you offer, anyway?
We do not know what the future holds. But we can certainly participate in making it. I do appreciate efforts like OpenAmiga, even if I am just as sceptical about many volunteer projects as you are.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 117 of 381 | Posted by Anonymous (204.73.96.203) on 28-Jul-2003 15:12:02 | In Reply to Comment 52 (samface):
'Saying that a MorphOS user is an Amiga user is like saying that a glove is mine simply because it fits me. It's not very logical nor morally correct reasoning, I'm afraid.'
However if you define an Amiga User as someone who buys and uses Amiga Applications then it would be logical. Why because you can buy Amiga Application and use them on a competiting OS - MorphOS. All depends on what one defines as an Amiga User.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 118 of 381 | Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis (Registered user) on 28-Jul-2003 15:12:09 | In Reply to Comment 79 (samface):
Nice reasoning... So, if you run AmigaOS4 on a Classic machine it
won't be an Amiga, as the applications will be emulated, right?
Samface... Get off your dreamworld... Commodore *SOLD* Amigas with
UNIX. They sold them as Amigas even though not a single Amiga app
was usuable on them, unless you installed AOS. And yes I'll use
my hw hitting game arguement AGAIN. If a game doesn't use AOS at
all and hits the hardware directly, isn't it an Amiga game? No, it
does not use AOS. Last time I said that you proved something, by
saying that without AOS it would need... DRIVERS!... MEMORY
MANAGERS!...
and stuff like that... Proving that you're more of a user of any other
platform than an Amigan.
Samface, I own several Amigas, a Pegasos and 2 PCs. I own and have
betatested several Amiga games and applications. Do you think that
I'mm not an Amigan? If yes... you must have flushed your brain in
the toilet...
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 119 of 381 | Posted by samface (131.116.254.200) on 28-Jul-2003 15:12:17 | In Reply to Comment 108 (Jupp3):
>"MorphOS applications is not compatible with the Amiga"
>
>On "source level" most MorphOS applications are VERY compatible...
Exactly how do I launch MorphOS executables in AmigaOS?
>And "source code" is what most deveopers develop in the first place...
>It's Compilers' job to compile source to chosen target platform(s)
Who talked about source code? I didn't. I talked about compiled and ready to launch executables, not source code. Joe Avarage doesn't give a flying rats behind about the compatibility at "source level".
>"MorphOS doesn't run on the same hardware as the AmigaOS"
>
>Eh???
As in they have different hardware requirements. What part of this do you have a problem with understanding?
>Guess, you would rather mean "AmigaOS 4 won't run on certain platform
>supporting MorphOS"
MorphOS requires either a Pegasos or a Phase5 PPC accelerator board and does NOT run on any official Amiga hardware on it's own. So, I guess I mean in BOTH regards, now as well as in the future.
>Few facts for you:
>1. MorphOS runs on CSPPC machines, which are first target platform of AOS4.
>2. MorphOS runs on BPPC machines, which are 3rd target platform for AOS4
Why do you MorphOS guys keep talking about backwards compatibility as a feature? This is self-evident to an official successor.
>3. MorphOS version for Teron/AmigaOne boards is being worked on
I'll believe it when I see it. Fact is that this is not a primary target for Genesi since they for obvious reasons prioritize their Pegasos customers first.
>There... Read it this time.
Nothing of what I said was "lies" and nothing I wrote was corrected by these completely irrelevant "facts". I'm not the one having problems reading.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 120 of 381 | Posted by Anonymous (204.73.96.203) on 28-Jul-2003 15:14:04 | In Reply to Comment 57 (samface):
' supporting MorphOS does not benefit Amiga users, developers, nor the Amiga market in any way, '
What? Of course MorphOS benefits the Amiga Developers. As I buy Amiga Software (ImageFX is a good example) and I run it on MorphOS. They have my money just as they have money for someone that runs it on AmigaOS 3.9.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 121 of 381 | Posted by DaveP (32.106.75.100) on 28-Jul-2003 15:15:30 | In Reply to Comment 119 (samface):
" Joe Avarage doesn't give a flying rats behind about the compatibility at "source level". "
I must have missed all those stupid forum posts which said "source for X released! Port it to Y" or "X will be on Y, I hope there will be a Z version".
Or maybe its the usual trick of trying to narrow the argument to a winnable one. You know who also does that?
Regards
Dave.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 122 of 381 | Posted by samface (131.116.254.200) on 28-Jul-2003 15:16:07 | In Reply to Comment 116 (Anonymous):
Huh? Where did you get that from? I own an A1200 PPC @240MHz and 128mb RAM + BVision. My first Amiga was an Amiga 1000 and I've always owned and used Amiga computers ever since. You must have confused me with someone else.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 124 of 381 | Posted by samface (131.116.254.200) on 28-Jul-2003 15:17:50 | In Reply to Comment 118 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
You are an Amiga user for the sole reason of owning and using Amiga computers as Amiga computers, the fact that you also own and use a Pegasos is completely irrelevant and makes you no more and no less Amiga user.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 128 of 381 | Posted by Janne (80.186.73.90) on 28-Jul-2003 15:21:05 | In Reply to Comment 126 (Anonymous):
>Half empty or Half full isn't the question. It's whether the water and glass
>truly exist at all that's the question.
Oh boy, that's a tough one. And the only clue that we have is that there is no spoon! :-)
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 129 of 381 | Posted by Anonymous (204.73.96.203) on 28-Jul-2003 15:24:45 | In Reply to Comment 79 (samface):
he MorphOS part of your question is completely irrelevant, the real question is; are you still using your Amiga as an Amiga? If the answer is "Yes", you are an Amiga user. If the answer is "No, I only run MorphOS on my Phase5 PPC accelerator board which is restricting me from running anything Amiga related natively", then you are not an Amiga user. It's simple, really.
-----
That's the problem your definition doesn't jive with other definitions. If someone runs MorphOS on their Phase5PPC card and purchases Amiga software giving money to Amiga developers in the process and running that software on MorphOS. I'd say they were an Amiga Software User.
Your definition seems to say one must (1) Own Amiga Hardware, (2) Run AmigaOS, and (3) Run Amiga Applications to be an Amiga User.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 132 of 381 | Posted by Jupp3 (193.167.144.30) on 28-Jul-2003 15:35:32 | In Reply to Comment 119 (samface):
>Exactly how do I launch MorphOS executables in AmigaOS?
3 choices, depending on program:
1.You use AmigaOS executeble, that was also included with program.
2.If program is Open Source, get sources and compile.
3.Ask developer of that software nicely to sarcrifice 5 minutes of his time to compile the same program to AmigaOS aswell.
4.Becouse of annoying fanatics, author doesn't want to support AmigaOS
(Obviously, in 4th case, you can't run the software...)
And to prove you wrong further, many apps, like Feeble Files, FXPaint, Voyager, etc. already use method 1 already (Best one, if you ask me)
>Who talked about source code?
Well, just read, what I explained earlier...
>>MorphOS doesn't run on the same hardware as the AmigaOS
>As in they have different hardware requirements. What part of this do you have a problem with understanding?
Actually, they have EXACTLY same hardware requirements:
Which is: "ANY supported hardware"
>MorphOS requires either a Pegasos or a Phase5 PPC accelerator board and does NOT run on any official Amiga hardware
Right, but you forgot word "Currently" off from the end...(If you meant A1)
So, now AmigaOne is "more official hardware" than CSPPC's? Care to explain?
CSPPC is the *FIRST* target platform of what you call "Next Generation AmigaOS" and that doesn't sound very "unofficial" to me...
>Why do you MorphOS guys keep talking about backwards compatibility as a feature? This is self-evident to an official successor.
Becouse you were lying otherwise by saying something, like "MOS and AOS4 won't run on same hardware"
>>3. MorphOS version for Teron/AmigaOne boards is being worked on
>I'll believe it when I see it.
I heard, that AmigaOS 4 for A1 is being worked on. I'll believe it when I see it.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 133 of 381 | Posted by Anonymous (204.73.96.203) on 28-Jul-2003 15:40:55 | In Reply to Comment 122 (samface):
Must have. I thought in the discuss on 'Amiga wants you!' you stated following using a PC and following the Amiga community being different then an Amiga user. I thought the you meant yourself while you probably meant 'you' as someone out there. Apologies.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 134 of 381 | Posted by samface (131.116.254.198) on 28-Jul-2003 15:43:53 | In Reply to Comment 129 (Anonymous):
Incorrect. My definition has nothing to do with the applications. An Amiga application is not an Amiga, it's an application made to be used with an Amiga. The difference is of outmost importance. If I use an Amiga application with something else than what the application was originally intended for, that doesn't somehow turn the object you are using the Amiga application with into an Amiga. It simply doesn't work that way.
The classic Amiga hardware can of course not be redefined into something else than what it is. However, if you boot into another OS using third party hardware, you're hardly using the original hardware nor OS at all, now are you? So, if this is your way of "using" the Amiga hardware, do you seriously still think of it as beeing an Amiga user?
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 135 of 381 | Posted by Anonymous (204.73.96.203) on 28-Jul-2003 15:44:42 | In Reply to Comment 131 (Janne):
Are Amiga Sock Users members of the Amiga Community?
----
If they choose to take part in discussions of Amiga's various products AmigaOS, AmigaDE, Amiga Hardware, Amiga Emulation, and now Amiga Socks then I'd say yes.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 137 of 381 | Posted by Anonymous (204.73.96.203) on 28-Jul-2003 15:55:03 | In Reply to Comment 134 (samface):
Incorrect. My definition has nothing to do with the applications.
----
So Only 1 and 2 apply? Amiga Hardware and AmigaOS?
An Amiga application is not an Amiga, it's an application made to be used with an Amiga.
----
Never said an Amiga Application is an Amiga. However, Amiga software are made to be used on Amiga Hardware. However, in the last few years some in the community have extended this to Amiga Emulation methods such as Amithlon, Amiga Forever, and MorphOS.
The difference is of outmost importance. If I use an Amiga application with something else than what the application was originally intended for, that doesn't somehow turn the object you are using the Amiga application with into an Amiga. It simply doesn't work that way.
----
So using ImageFX with Amiga Forever doesn't make me an Amiga User? ImageFX was intended for an Amiga Computer System (Hardware and OS) since Amiga Forever is only OS and not an Amiga Computer system then I'm not an Amiga User?Help me out here I'm trying to see what you're defining as an Amiga User.
The classic Amiga hardware can of course not be redefined into something else than what it is. However, if you boot into another OS using third party hardware, you're hardly using the original hardware nor OS at all, now are you? So, if this is your way of "using" the Amiga hardware, do you seriously still think of it as beeing an Amiga user?
----
Let's say I boot A/UX on Amiga Hardware. A/UX and Amiga Hardware were both shipped by Commodore as the Unix package for the Amiga. There's no 3rd party hardware nor 3rd party software. I'd say this person was a Unix user using Amiga Hardware. However, if this person ran UAE within Unix to run the Amiga OS and Amiga Applications.
I think the definition of 'What is an Amiga User' needs to be fleshed out. I see there are 3 diverse components that make up an Amiga system the first component is Hardware. Various Amiga related companies (commodore, escom, Amiga Inc.) have made Amiga Hardware. There's the AmigaOS -- right now there are two AmigaOS and AmigaDE. Then there are Amiga Applications such as ImageFX. What pieces do you say a person must use as a requirement to being defined as an Amiga User? Is there some piece I missed?
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 139 of 381 | Posted by samface (131.116.254.200) on 28-Jul-2003 16:06:40 | In Reply to Comment 132 (Jupp3):
YOU, my friend, is the one lying. Want to hear the facts? Here's the facts for you:
1. Current versions of MorphOS does not run on classic Amiga hardware.
2. The original AmigaOS runs on the classic Amiga 68k processor computers and does not require any third party hardware addons.
3. Current versions of MorphOS does not run on the AmigaOne.
4. AmigaOS4 has the AmigaOne as it's primary hardware target just like MorphOS has the Pegasos as it's primary hardware target.
This is the simple facts *proving* that I'm 100% correct in my statement that MorphOS and AmigaOS has different hardware requirements. It is also 100% correct by me when I stated that MorphOS applications is not compatible with AmigaOS since such binaries cannot be executed in AmigaOS without modification or emulation. The level of difficulty for the developer to make a recompile has NOTHING to do with it. Furthermore, a simple recompilation would require that the application wouldn't be using any MorphOS specific features, which would make the MorphOS compilation rather meaningless to begin with.
YOU are the one lying, not me.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 142 of 381 | Posted by samface (131.116.254.200) on 28-Jul-2003 16:13:02 | In Reply to Comment 137 (Anonymous):
The emulation issue is rather tricky but give it another thought, what are you using? If you are using the real AmigaOS, as in using an Amiga product, you are of course an Amiga user. Wether you run ImageFX with it or not is irrelevant.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 143 of 381 | Posted by samface (131.116.254.200) on 28-Jul-2003 16:16:37 | In Reply to Comment 140 (mahen):
I do believe it's because we have passed that point that this issue about who is and who isn't an Amiga user has been brought up. I believe there is noone in here that hasn't already decided upon the wether to go MorphOS or not issue.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 144 of 381 | Posted by Anonymous (204.73.96.203) on 28-Jul-2003 16:16:44 | In Reply to Comment 142 (samface):
The emulation issue is rather tricky but give it another thought, what are you using? If you are using the real AmigaOS, as in using an Amiga product, you are of course an Amiga user. Wether you run ImageFX with it or not is irrelevant.
----
So, Samface, out of the 3 options
1) Amiga Hardware
2) AmigaOS
3) Amiga Software
The way you're defining what is Amiga User is they only need (2) Amiga OS?
If this isn't a clear definition of what discrete components are needed to make up an Amiga user can you lay out a distinct definition.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 147 of 381 | Posted by Anonymous (80.133.144.57) on 28-Jul-2003 16:21:15 | In Reply to Comment 104 (takemehomegrandma):
>Samface, are you a real person? Or are you a bot?
Sorry for the empty comment. What I wanted to say is that I'm tempted to write an Eliza clone with some MorphOS phrases, and let it loose on ann. Should be interesting to see if they (samface, DaveP) notice mindless Eliza chatter or not.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 148 of 381 | Posted by Jupp3 (193.167.144.30) on 28-Jul-2003 16:27:40 | In Reply to Comment 139 (samface):
samface:
Here are corrections to your so-called "facts":
>1. Current versions of MorphOS does not run on classic Amiga hardware
Wrong answer!
What you MIGHT have meant, is:
Current _public_ versions of MorphOS does not run on classic Amiga hardware
>2. The original AmigaOS runs on classic Amiga 68k processor computers and does not require any third party hardware addons.
That's partly true, yes.
Some OS versions (namely 3.5/3.9) have too high requirements for some Amigas, and they must be (spit!) upgraded with Evil 3rd Party Hardware
>3. Current versions of MorphOS does not run on the AmigaOne
There are rumours about that, don't know for sure...
Becouse of that, I _NEVER_ made that claim...
>4. AmigaOS4 has the AmigaOne as it's primary hardware target just like MorphOS has the Pegasos as it's primary hardware target.
CSPPC is first target, but yes, A1 is most likely "primary" target.
But that does _NOT_ mean, there couldn't be "secondary targets"
(as there obviously are for both, and THOSE are very similar)
MorphOS: "Requires Pegasos, BPPC or CSPPC"
AmigaOS: "Requires AmigaOne, CSPPC or *BPPC"
So, you claim, there's NOTHING similar there?
(*Not confirmed)
Face it - statement above IS true, and you must admit it.
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MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 150 of 381 | Posted by Janne (195.197.214.226) on 28-Jul-2003 16:30:09 | Hey, we've all been mistaken. Here is the official definition of Amiga, straight from the horse's mouth!
http://amiga.org/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=378
;-)
Let us all relax a bit, obviously these definitions are an issue where there are many ways to look at it. I doubt we'll come to a conclusion anytime soon, if ever. What I would like to encourage, though, is accepting the diversity no matter what you call it.
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