| [Events] The Best of Both Worlds: New OS4 beta and MOS 1.5 beta in Finland | Link |
| Posted on 23-Sep-2004 06:42 GMT by saku | 174 comments (82k)
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Add comment | | Why guess, listen to rumours,
compare months old public releases and continue speculating online? Why not
participate in a friendly duel and come see the state of the art for
yourself! Finnish Amiga Users Group is pleased to demonstrate the best of
the both worlds at its annual meeting this coming Saturday: AmigaOne
running a new AmigaOS 4.0 beta and Pegasos II running MorphOS 1.5 beta. The time
and place to be: 14 o'clock, Saturday 25.09.2004, Opetusravintola Eetvartin
Kellarikabinetti, Sumeliuksenkatu 16, Tampere, Finland.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
The Best of Both Worlds: New OS4 beta and MOS 1.5 beta in Finland
TAMPERE, FINLAND - September 23st, 2004 - Why guess, listen to rumours,
compare months old public releases and continue speculating online? Why not
participate in a friendly duel and come see the state of the art for
yourself! Finnish Amiga Users Group is pleased to demonstrate the best of
the both worlds at its annual meeting this coming Saturday: AmigaOne
running a new AmigaOS 4.0 beta and Pegasos II running MorphOS 1.5 beta.
Encouraged by the recent technological advances within the extended Amiga
community, the Finnish Amiga Users Group is once again excited to showcase
the latest progress. Colour blind since its inception, the Finnish Amiga
Users Group welcomes everyone - and attendance is free as usual. The time
and place to be: 14 o'clock, Saturday 25.09.2004, Opetusravintola Eetvartin
Kellarikabinetti, Sumeliuksenkatu 16, Tampere, Finland.
Also attending is Finnish Amiga retailer Gentle Eye Ky. Welcome!
About Finnish Amiga Users Group
Finnish Amiga Users Group (officially Suomen Amiga-käyttäjät ry.) is a
registered, non-profit organization dedicated to supporting Finnish Amiga
computer users by preserving and advancing the Amiga hobby and knowledge
of the Amiga computing platform in Finland. The group aims to reach its
goals through volunteer efforts such as organizing events and publishing
an e-zine called Saku. For more information, see http://saku.amigafin.org.
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The Best of Both Worlds: New OS4 beta and MOS 1.5 beta in Finland : Comment 18 of 174 | Posted by Kjetil (213.225.65.74) on 24-Sep-2004 06:27:41 | In Reply to Comment 12 (hooligan/dcs):
It’s not like you are can compare them equally yet, OS40 continues to be unfinished work, there are several components not present in the present beta if I’m not mistaken,
I don’t know a lot about what’s missing in the MorphOS version I know, it has powerup worpup support, and I don’t think the present AmigaOS beta has this, even if they are listed in the final feature list,
You can’t really compare them on software titles ether as there MorphOS has bin around longer then AmigaOS, and even so I think number of developers invested in this platforms are about equal,
I think you need to wait until AmigaOS4.0 is finished to compare it whit any thing else.
I think what it really boils down to is what you like,
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The Best of Both Worlds: New OS4 beta and MOS 1.5 beta in Finland : Comment 20 of 174 | Posted by hooligan/dcs (Registered user) on 24-Sep-2004 07:13:24 | In Reply to Comment 18 (Kjetil):
Ok now you got me confused. The update for OS4b should be out very soon (it's even being tested if I recall?) and it must be close to final product when it comes to overal usage. Sure it may be missing some details but I don't think they are not so important when doing comparison, as MorphOS is also lacking in some promised issues.
It's soon 2005... if it's really true what you say, that one can't compare latest OS4b against MOS1.5b then I am very sorry for you guys. That will mean you guys won't get the final product for a long long time.
In fact, I am expecting OS4 at this stage being _AHEAD_ MorphOS, especially now that MOS developement has (apparently) slowed down.
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The Best of Both Worlds: New OS4 beta and MOS 1.5 beta in Finland : Comment 21 of 174 | Posted by takemehomegrandma (Registered user) on 24-Sep-2004 08:31:41 | In Reply to Comment 18 (Kjetil):
> It’s not like you are can compare them equally yet
Of course you can! They are both work in progress, and comparing "the latest betas" of the two is a good way to see the state they are in at this particular point. A very interesting comparison IMHO.
> OS40 continues to be unfinished work
MorphOS is also a work in progress you know, even though the latest public release doesn't lack as many important components as the latest public release of the OS4 did (the pre-release).
> there are several components not present in the present beta if I’m not
> mistaken
I would at least expect the "OS4 beta" to ship with all necessary drivers for peripheral devices, I would expect lots of things to have migrated to PPC especially the P96 and all the other things that made the "pre-release" so unbearably slow, I would expect improvements in the 68k emulator, I would expect improvements in the TCP/IP stack and network drivers (I have not been able to get it working satisfactory at all), and last but not least, I would expect wheel-mouse support (a small thing to ask for perhaps, but a real annoyance to live without). Those are all very basic things that really should have been in the pre-release from the beginning.
It would be really nice if they also managed to ship it with PowerUP and WarpUP support, as well as the JIT emulator, and if they manage to get those things so seamlessly and transparantly integrated into the OS as they are in MorphOS. However, I believe that the chance of that happening at *this point* is close to zero.
> You can’t really compare them on software titles ether as there MorphOS has
> bin around longer then AmigaOS
Both OS's are currently in development, and *of course* you can compare the current state in which they both are right now. And that is interesting!
> I think you need to wait until AmigaOS4.0 is finished to compare it whit any
> thing else.
And when is an OS finished? When development stops? Isn't that more equal to "death" than "finished"? IMHO, an OS that is still being actively developed is never really "finished", so what you may compare is different public releases and, as in this case, current betas, which should reflect the current state of the OS's pretty well ...
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The Best of Both Worlds: New OS4 beta and MOS 1.5 beta in Finland : Comment 22 of 174 | Posted by takemehomegrandma (Registered user) on 24-Sep-2004 08:40:46 | In Reply to Comment 20 (hooligan/dcs):
> Ok now you got me confused. The update for OS4b should be out very soon (it's
> even being tested if I recall?) and it must be close to final product when it
> comes to overal usage.
This sounds like a reasonable conclusion IMHO.
Perhaps I am wrong in this, but from what I have understood based on the public info I have read, we should see the following public releases:
"OS4 pre-release" -> "OS4 beta" (the update coming real soon now TM) -> "OS4 Final"
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The Best of Both Worlds: New OS4 beta and MOS 1.5 beta in Finland : Comment 23 of 174 | Posted by takemehomegrandma (Registered user) on 24-Sep-2004 08:59:36 | To the Finnish Amiga Computing Group (or any other visitors of this event), please consider using a gadget like this one together with your video camera:
http://www.deltaco.se/info/tv-8c.pdf
I have one of those myself. It sits in between the monitor and GFX card, and it has both composite video out and S-video out. It connects very nicely to any digital video camera equiped with a s-video in connector, which makes it perfect for recording anything that happens on the computer screen in a digital, editable, format. It even records the firmware output etc.
I'm saying this because I think it would be really nice to have some videos from the current states of the two OS's put on-line after this event ...
:-)
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The Best of Both Worlds: New OS4 beta and MOS 1.5 beta in Finland : Comment 24 of 174 | Posted by priest (192.100.124.218) on 24-Sep-2004 10:04:24 | To compare or not to compare...
AOS4beta should be compared to equally young version of MOS.
But then again... MOS has been in development since at least 1999, AOS4 since 2002, but AOS4 takes advantage of AOS legacy codes and binaries form early nineties. It ought to make things more even.
On the other hand, AOS is developed differently than MOS. MOS is built from the ground (all parts are very modern, there is no legacy at all) while AOS work is being done by replacing/updating existing code (taking advantage of existing features).
I personally am (just) going to enjoy of seeing two new generation AmigalikeOSs.
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The Best of Both Worlds: New OS4 beta and MOS 1.5 beta in Finland : Comment 26 of 174 | Posted by Anonymous (62.131.178.212) on 24-Sep-2004 11:14:12 | In Reply to Comment 24 (priest):
@ priest
> MOS has been in development since at least 1999
The MorphOS project started early 1998 according to Ralph Schmidt and I believe it should be noted that large portions of AROS have been used for MorphOS and so deserve credit for it too. The AROS project was started late 1995 / early 1996 by Aaron Digulla.
IMO both projects (AOS4/MOS) can be compared to some extend and in some areas like Grim Reaper, gbd debugging, kernel funtionalities, etc IMO AmigaOS4 is already clearly in the lead. With regard to some higher level components and especially eye-candy a comparison may IMO still be too early as the paint & polish usually comes last.
MikeB (Christian did you ever receive my email?)
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The Best of Both Worlds: New OS4 beta and MOS 1.5 beta in Finland : Comment 27 of 174 | Posted by priest (192.100.124.218) on 24-Sep-2004 11:41:35 | In Reply to Comment 26 (Anonymous):
" IMO both projects (AOS4/MOS) can be compared to some extend and in some areas like Grim Reaper, gbd debugging, kernel funtionalities, etc IMO AmigaOS4 is already clearly in the lead."
Right and on things like WUP/PUP legacy support it's clearly behind.
btw. I expect that there is Grim Reaper equivalent and debugging tools on MOS1.5b, they have had one year to catch up on that front...
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The Best of Both Worlds: New OS4 beta and MOS 1.5 beta in Finland : Comment 29 of 174 | Posted by takemehomegrandma (Registered user) on 24-Sep-2004 13:53:42 | In Reply to Comment 25 (JoannaK):
> In the end.. Those who want will compare.. and those who don't don't.. Simple.
Exactly!
And priest - *I could not care the less* about "how fast" each of the two has reached a certain point of development in the past, I find that to be extremely un-interesting, the only thing that I find relevant is at what the OS's offers right here, right now!
Besides, comparing "how fast" they reached a certain stage in development would only have been relevant if they followed the same development path, but these are different products, with different designs and goals.
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The Best of Both Worlds: New OS4 beta and MOS 1.5 beta in Finland : Comment 32 of 174 | Posted by Kjetil (80.213.187.101) on 24-Sep-2004 15:50:22 | In Reply to Comment 20 (hooligan/dcs):
Ok now you got me confused. The update for OS4b should be out very soon (it's even being tested if I recall?) and it must be close to final product when it comes to overall usage. Sure it may be missing some details but I don't think they are not so important when doing comparison, as MorphOS is also lacking in some promised issues.
It's soon 2005... if it's really true what you say, that one can't compare latest OS4b against MOS1.5b then I am very sorry for you guys. That will mean you guys won't get the final product for a long long time.
I the driver issue is clearly a place where I be where surprised if AmigaOS is a head of MorphOS,
(I'm not taking about gfx drivers,) I'm think about usb/pci drivers,
In fact, I am expecting OS4 at this stage being _AHEAD_ MorphOS, especially now that MOS development has (apparently) slowed down.
I Think is quite normal for project to slow down when you have filled the basic needs,
MorphOS has bin under development for quite some time, MorphOS design goals are maybe not as bold as AmigaOS when it comes to redesigning and improvements (stack enlargement, true VM, debugger, new API interface model), on the other hand drivers / software and compatibility is most-likely one of the places where MorphOS is expected to be a head,
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The Best of Both Worlds: New OS4 beta and MOS 1.5 beta in Finland : Comment 34 of 174 | Posted by itix (130.234.189.82) on 24-Sep-2004 16:10:23 | In Reply to Comment 32 (Kjetil):
"when it comes to redesigning and improvements (stack enlargement, true VM, debugger, new API interface model)"
Btw., if interface stuff was really needed it could be implemented in any given day. There is spare function slot (offset -24) in every library which could be used to implement interfaces. OTOH you can implement similar methods into _new_ libraries just by adding your own GetFunctionTable() entry... (interface == simple jumptable)
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The Best of Both Worlds: New OS4 beta and MOS 1.5 beta in Finland : Comment 36 of 174 | Posted by Anonymous (213.226.84.50) on 24-Sep-2004 16:19:42 | In Reply to Comment 32 (Kjetil):
"MorphOS design goals are maybe not as bold as AmigaOS when it comes to redesigning and improvements"
Ahem ...
"MorphOS/Quark has the following basic design goals
High Super/Usermode switch speed
Low interrupt latency
IntThreads and Int PCode abstraction
Memory protection
Symmetrical multi processing (SMP)
Task/Thread and Clan/Chief model
Resource tracking
Asynchronous message system
Virtual memory (optional)
Recursive Memory Management
Distributed computing
No access to Kernel structures
Clean design with an elegant API
Micro/pico kernel mixture"
;-)
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The Best of Both Worlds: New OS4 beta and MOS 1.5 beta in Finland : Comment 37 of 174 | Posted by Kjetil (80.213.187.101) on 24-Sep-2004 16:44:15 | In Reply to Comment 34 (itix):
"when it comes to redesigning and improvements (stack enlargement, true VM, debugger, new API interface model)"
Btw., if interface stuff was really needed it could be implemented in any given day. There is spare function slot (offset -24) in every library which could be used to implement interfaces. OTOH you can implement similar methods into _new_ libraries just by adding your own GetFunctionTable() entry... (interface == simple jumptable)
well this is what I where thinking until I started developing for the OS, interfaced contains classes of functions whit in a library, it not directly related to JUMP table as we are used to, one library can have many interfaces,
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The Best of Both Worlds: New OS4 beta and MOS 1.5 beta in Finland : Comment 38 of 174 | Posted by Kjetil (80.213.187.101) on 24-Sep-2004 17:06:25 | In Reply to Comment 36 (Anonymous):
High Super/Usermode switch speed
Same gold for OS40
Low interrupt latency
Most OS will try to get low latency it's a gold for any OS.
IntThreads and Int PCode abstraction
Rouge did make a library contains threads just recently.
Memory protection
New memory design in use in the new beta
Symmetrical multi processing (SMP)
Target for OS4.1/4.2
Task/Thread and Clan/Chief model
Rouge did make a library contains threads just recently,
long therm gold is to make a clean one.
Resource tracking
Exists in the current AmigaOS40
Asynchronous message system
AmigaOS Is using Asynchronous message system,
and it's quite old
Virtual memory (optional)
Optional swap disk for AmigaOS40,
Virtual memory not optional.
Recursive Memory Management
Advanced memory management for OS40
Distributed computing
samba
No access to Kernel structures
Same for OS40
Clean design with an elegant API
better/faster API for OS40
Micro/pico kernel mixture"
NO need waste of resources.
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